Guard Your Eyes

"I am writing to you in hopes that you may consult with a rav who can give me daat torah on how to proceed. After reading this you will understand that while I have a posek, and a morah daasra, this is NOT something I can bring into the open. I am not asking for a therapy related answer, I have am seeing both a frum psychologist and psychiatrist. I think my life is over, and sometimes, I feel that if I were to die the people around me would be better off. I am 28 and am married for 8 years, with 3 very small children. I have always had a history of depression/dysthymia, but never had anything close to this. I grew up in a lonely broken divorced MO home, went to a coed yeshiva, was in NCSY, and was pretty frum for the most part. I spend a year in Israel learning, got my BA, got married to a boy I was in love with (I was shidduch dating, but met him through a friend), and got my MS in psych. Life was pretty good, though I was still struggling a bit with dysthymia. at 24 I had my first child, and 26 my second, and when I was pregnant with my third at 28 is when this all started. My husband and I consider ourselves yeshivish, we don't watch TV, sending our kids to non coed school, keep all laws of tzniut, don't go out with other couples for fun, as we deem it inappropriate. Though I am very comfortable around males, as I have grown up in a coed environment, since I have been married, I would never think to put the word friend and a guys name in the same sentence. I was friendly, but knew it was not correct to be mixing with the opposite sex. so, while I was pregnant with my 3rd a frum yeshivish type neighbor with a wife and small kids my kids age, took a liking to me, so he would find excuses to get the kids together, and call the house when he knew my husband was in shul. Then he started calling my cell phone, and I would tell my husband how weird it was that he was calling me. This man, lets call him Moshe, said he always wanted s/o he could talk to, and felt comfortable talking to me, so I kind of just let him talk, then my husband and I thought it was inappropriate so I kept telling him that I don't talk to other men and I think itsd assur. He kept calling and kept calling. I enjoyed talking to him, but felt too guilty, so I told him to stop, so thats when he said he will miss talking to me, and he admitted his feelings for me, and I have to say I had feelings for him. Sooo, he kept calling and calling, and opening up more and more, and telling me how his wife doesn't sleep with him enough, so I told him that I cant help him there. Then I started to really have feelings for him, and after a few months of us sharing how we feel about each other, and he admitting that he loved me, I got a call from him saying that while we could still speak, we can't talk about out feelings for each other b/c it'll lead bad places and well end up sleeping with e/o. I was aghast. I said I don't see how one would lead to the other, and begged him to keep the feelings channel open. so he agreed, on one condition. he said he would continue to talk about how much we love each other (btw this was going on for a while, and we didn't touch once), but he wants to but up a bet. he said if we continue, then I will eventually give in to sleeping with him. I told him that I accept the challenge, b/c I would never even let him touch me. so went by a few days, where he would come over ad try to hug and kiss me, and I would absolutely resist and pull away, then he calls me telling me that he cant continue this it is wrong and we have to stop talking about our feelings and he will stop trying to get him to sleep with me, and that I have to choose w/n him and my husband, i broke down. I realized how much I was in love with him, but couldn't leave my husband b/c I would feel too guilty and my husband is a tzaddik. He said that if I want to continue this we both have to get a divorce, so I said it wasn't an option. then my life came crashing down on me. Once he stopped telling me how much he loved me, and I realized I lost my chance to kiss him, I broke down, in addition I was working 2 part time jobs, and one of them was giving me a hard time about putting in more hours for next year. I lost my appetite, withdrew from everything, couldn't exercise (which I loved), and cried all day, it eventually became so bad that I would throw up stomach acid b/c I had no food in me. I couldn't get out of bed or take care of my kids. I went to a psychologist and was diagnosed with MDD. I became obsessed with this man, and not ever having the chance to touch him again. just to give you an idea of how physically sick this made me, I was admitted to the hospital for IV after a urinalysis showed I was spilling ketones. I am about 5"3, and I was 8 months pregnant weighing in at only 111 pounds. I could barely walk. NO ONE WAS CAPABLE OF COMFORTING ME BUT Moshe. Not my kids, not my husband, no one in my family. I came home from the hospital weak and depressed, and wasting away with no hope of getting better. i wanted to die. Then, Moshe walked into my house took a look at how sick I was and grabbed me, and kissed me. If I tell you, I've never felt such comfort in my life. it wasn't the excitement b/c I never looked for that in my life. ever since I was in jr high, I never wanted a boyfriend, I just wanted to stability of a husband. I always liked guys, and had guy friends, but NEVER gave into my yezter hara to even kiss a guy until my husband. I would never even go out with any boy that asked me in HS b/c I didn't think it would lead to marriage. After he kissed me, all was right with the world I gained all the weight I had lost, started eating, cooking and taking care of my kids, I even managed to go on anin terview and get a job. then, I came to him and told him that after months of thinking about it, I choose him ,and am ready to divorce my husband to be with him, and realize that I truly love and want to be with him in the right way and not touch out of marriage. he buried his head and said he can't live his kids and his wife, but we can still hug and kiss. I was upset but took what I could get. then a few weeks later he came over to me and told me that we can't do anything wrong anymore until/if we get married. no more touching. I broke down again, lost weight couldn't eat, cried all day, and was suicidal b/c my whole life I had a whole in my heart, that I felt even on my wedding day and night, and even though my husband loves me and I loved him and treated me so nicely and we never fought and tells me how much he loves me. Moshe was the only person in the WHOLE world that filled that hole. When I Was in his arms it was like sunshine, completeness. I finally knew what it felt like to feel complete. Yet it wasn't 100%, b/c I wasn't married to him. I even felt this overwhelming desire to give to him. I used to buy his favorite snacks and baked food for his parents tikkun kiddush and even gave him money. it hurt me when I told me that I couldn't give to him anymore as his wife would find out. so a few weeks later, I had the baby. I was grateful to Hashem for a healthy, precious baby, but by no means was I happy. I still couldn't eat, and would sit in my bed crying. A frum social worker saw me in the hospital and her and two psychiatrists involuntarily committed me to the psychiatric ward, but I refused to go and we left the hospital. months went by and I felt like a zombie with a newborn. I couldn't take care of things, and felt that I needed Moshe. I had the baby in the summer, and in the fall, Moshe suddenly kissed me, and AGAIN, I got better gained weight, looked good, was function. as long as we were able to touch I was ok. We made boundaries and agreed nothing more than hugging and kissing. One night I came over to drop something off, and his wife was out. ***I apologize for being so graphic but its important for the psak halacha*** He started to finger me so hard that I was cut and bleeding, so when he put me on the bed in a very dark room and quickly pulled of my skirt I didn't know what hit me, he went inside of me and I didn't realize until it was too late. I was devastated. I didn't want to be a sotah, and knew that I couldn't go back to my husband. But I was stuck, I couldn't tell my husband the truth and have 3 kids with him. That next week I tried to overdose, and Moshe told me that we cant touch anymore b/c itll lead to sex again. He pushed me away, and I feel apart. all of the sudden, I couldn't function again, I lost my job and didn't want to leave my house. I couldn't look at Moshe without falling apart, my stomach would churn, I've never felt love so deep (it wasn't a crush it lasted too long, and the desire too give even when it couldn't be reciprocated was too strong) Then s/t snapped, I could no longer live in the deep, emotional, suicidal pain (btw, I was on Rmeron and Paxil), so turned to some guy friends to talk to (which I hadn't done wince I was engaged). I started not caring about halacha as much (as opposed to b/f when I felt morbidly guilty about my indiscretions). Then, I did the unthinkable, I tried to replace Moshe with other guys just to ease the pain while time would try to heal my severely broken heart. I no longer had the slightest desire for my husband. IN fact we were separated for about 3 months due to niddah issues and I didn't care AT ALL. even now almost a year later, I don't feel comforted by his touch and in fact makes me nauseous at times. I started finding frum guys online to talk to and then I met up with some of them. I went through a few (no sex that was a firm NO with all of them on my part). It was like someone stole my brain and replaced it with an immoral, uncaring, non Jewish one. My soul became corrupted and I fell deeper into it. The psychiatrist reevaluated what was going on and diagnosed ADD and Bipolar and put me on Depakot. I was out of control, I would meet up with yeshivish guys 3 time s week for a quick fix anything to take away the pain. But I was super picky who I would fool around with. They had to remind me of this guy Moshe. Then and this is where my questions comes in, 2 guys who I said NO SEX to several times, took advantage. we were both naked and then pushed in. They didn't ask, no warning just went it, these guys were big players, very experienced, so again, I didn't know what hit me. I assumed no sex meant they would even try and they popped in. So the problem is, its not exactly rape b/c it wasn't forceful, it was just an unwelcome surprise. Once they were in I thought it was all over and so I just let them finish and said good bye. Needless to say I didn't let them do that again and swore them. I again wanted to kill myself b/c I m such a state of limbo, this disease is controlling me, I want to be free from pain and I don't want to trade my soul for that.. I want my husband to be happy b/c I love him as a person but I don't want to be married to him anymore, but cant divorce him its not an option, he will not hear of it, and would prob not give me a get, b/c he doesn't want to get remarried an only wants me. But halachically I want to be able to go back to my husband for my kids sake, and b/c I believe my husband is one of the 36 hidden tzaddikim, I dont want to deny more children to him. So what is my status. I wish a rav could fins some leniency (like pleading insanity). even the guys I am with tell me I'M crazy b/c over the span of 6 months, I have met with and fooled around with TWENTY GUYS. With each one I say this is the last, and each one I want them to be like Moshey so I can forget him. but there is NO replacement for him, and this not helping, BUT it is keeping me from being suicidal and un-functional and that is why I am continuing. I cannot even listn to reason. I KNOW logically I am wrong, and I don't even for a second deny the truth to every word of the Torah, but my thinking is so clouded my pain and emotion, that like a drug addict Ill take what I can get to prevent from feeling sad again I know aveira goreret aveira but this is ridiculous, I cant even look or talk to a guy now without thinking about hooking up with them. I am obsessed with guys. I used to be one that wanted stability and to always do the right thing, b/c I grew up in an immoral and unstable family life, but now I am a loose cannon, agreeing to meet at night and in cars with guys I d ont know, wanted to go clubbing and even entertaining the thought of sleeping over these guys houses. I am seeing 3 guys at a time, HEEELPP ME!! what is my status?

Background	On Ahron’s half a year clean day, someone contacted him on Facebook. She was very attractive and tried to start up with him… Ahron replied to her: “that’s not how I make friends", but since she looked married in the picture, Ahron checked on onlysimchos.com and found her wedding pictures, upsherin pictures, etc… So Ahron contacted her and asked her what’s going on?… In order to get her to open up, Ahron admitted to her that he also did bad things once, and she wanted to hear more... As she started revealing her crazy story to him, Ahron told her about his own journey on guardyoureyes, and he tried to convince her she was addicted and needed help… Ahron also contacted me and asked for advice on how to proceed. After giving him advice, and telling him that Hashem wanted him to take his Teshuva to the next level, precisely on his half a year day mark, I promised to also send him some links to pass on to her. See below. I also explained to him that she has to WANT to be helped before we can help her.
We sent Ahron to pass on to her these links	Hi Ahron, Have her see this exchange I had yesterday with someone... And have her also see the second half of this page; /GUE/FAQ/FAQforWomen.asp And have her read Miribn's thread on the forum - and maybe the other women's threads as well... May Hashem give you strength to help many people!
Ahron writes us	I finally got through to her and helped show her that she has to WANT to stop. Let me quote some of what she said after I kept at it with my best mix of pushiness and empathy (Including talking to her on the phone, which I felt was necessary): "I am obsessed with website now. ITS AMAZING. now I WANT to get better. you are going to have a sickly awesome seat in the olam haemet" "Ahron, listen carefully. MANY MANY MANY people have told me have to stop, buuuut, somehow your words penetrated my heart and pierced my neshama. maybe it was your pureness and sincerity. I just know that now I will have a new addiction-- THAT GUA WEBSITE. I started reading the handbook, and signed up. You have no clue how much you are doing for me. I have one prob though. while these addictions are from the same source, they have to break free of the lust inside themselves and the desire to see porn. I however, have more difficulty, b/c its not sex, its an emotional connection to these guys." I explained as well as I could about how all these behaviors stem from lust, and I think she is getting it. I hope she listens to me and posts on the women's wall of honor. She has no self-esteem at all, comes from a broken home, and had another incident which led to all of this. The group emotional support will help her immensely. You are accomplishing so much good through your site, it is unbelievable. She says I'm gonna have awesome seats. If that's true, you're gonna be sitting on the pitchers mound.
We sent her	Dear Bas Yisrael, I am the webmaster of GuardYourEyes. Ahron told me he was in touch with you. As he explained to you, you have an addiction. But with women, it is often not only a LUST addiction, but also an addiction to "love" and emotional connection. That's why most men go to SA and most women go to SLAA - which stands for "Sex and Love addicts". Please see the info below and the files attached to this e-mail... Most importantly, please read the SLAA beginner's kit. The GYE handbooks can also be a big help, if you use the tools in them systematically and with determination. We are here to help you. You are no longer alone in your struggle. Sign up for the women's forum and you'll get lots of Chizuk. May Hashem be with you on your journey to recovery! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SLAA Yahoo group: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/SLAAsupport/?yguid=397050955 Online meetings are available through several of the sexual addiction recovery forums. To connect to an online SLAA meeting go to: http://www.slaaonline.org/ for more information. Meetings are held: Daily at Noon and 10 p.m. EST M-F at 4:30 p.m. EST In addition to SLAA meetings online, there are also Sexual Compulsive Anonymous and Sex Addicts Anonymous online meetings. For more information on SCA online meetings go to: http://www.sca-recovery.org/find.htm and scroll down to the portion that says “Accessing Online Meetings.” For information on SAA online meetings go to: http://www.saa-recovery.org/online.htm#Join
She replies	WOW, thank you so much, I appreciate all the efforts you are putting into this, and since Ahron has directed me to this website, and I have been improving. Are you aware of any SLLA groups in the N.Y area?
We reply to her	I'm sure there is. Please go to http://www.slaafws.org/ and search for a number to call in your area. They have groups in every country and almost every city... You may need to leave a message and they will get back to you. They are VERY careful to preserve everyone's anonymity, so they will want to screen you by phone first to see that you are serious... Let me tell you, if you join an SLAA group - that would be the very best thing you could do for yourself. See Rabbi Twerki's reply to someone over here. May Hashem be with you.
Ahron writes us about what he wrote her	Hey Reb guard, Here is the message I sent her after shabbos in Eretz Yisrael. I'm still amazed at what has happened here, and at the "coincidence" of her attempting inappropriate contact on the day when I hit 6 months. What I wrote in the message is completely true. I really did read that this shabbos: I think the most important think you can do right now is register on the guardureyes forum. If it is blocked, you need to get it unblocked by any means possible. The group support is one of the most amazing things and it will help you break free of this addiction, because you will have many people who you don't even know rooting for your success and you will NOT want to let them down. I'm sure the administrator of the site will contact you. Because I'm sure you can easily figure out which guy I am on the site, you will probably be the only person in the world (aside from me) who knows my screen name on GUE and my real name. Anyway, that doesn't really matter, because I'm never going back to those behaviors. Now for a little inspiration! I was reading a parenting book this Shabbos by Rabbi Horowitz, and I came across something very inspiring in light of what has happened here. You may have heard the idea that when one does teshuva, all their previous aveiras are turned into zechusim. I've often wondered what that meant (as did the person in the quote I will bring from the book). How can I so easily turn 7 years of constant aveiros into zechusim? So when just this week I stumbled on this in Rabbi Horowitz's book, I was amazed. And I quote "A distinguished rabbi recently approached me and asked me to share a personal experience of his with my readers. Nearly 30 years ago, a young man who came from a very distinguished Orthodox family and who was no longer observant approached him in shul on Yom Kippur. This individual informed the rabbi that he felt drawn to attend Yom Kippur davening despite his nonreligious status, but that he was troubled by a nagging question. Somewhere in the recesses of his mind, he remembered hearing from his rebbeim that if one repents out of sincere love for Hashem, all his previous sins are transformed to merits. "Come on, Rabbi," he asked. "Do you really believe that? How is it possible for Hashem to consider everything that I have done in the past few years as mitzvos? Do you have any idea how many terrible things I did? How can God ever accept me back? I might believe that Hashem could wipe my slate clean, but how could the things I have done ever be considered mitzvos?" The rabbi was quiet for a long moment, not really knowing how to respond. He then softly informed the young man that one day in the future he might wish to take all the mistakes and experiences of his youthful rebellion and utilize them to assist others in similar predicaments. Thanks to his past, he would better understand how to help others. "When that happens," said the rabbi, "your actions in the past will all become zechusim - for you, and for the children whose lives you will save." The rabbi informed me that this young man eventually devoted his life to helping wayward teens, and is currently heading a program in Eretz Yisrael that has, over the past two decades, enabled hundreds of at-risk teens to regain their footing and become proud, productive members of our Torah community." That's the end of the quote from the book. I feel the same way about myself. How can my countless sins in these areas be converted to zechusim? When I use the experience to help someone in a similar predicament, I am converting my past misdeeds into good. When I don't look at "you" as a sexual object to satisfy my own lusts, but instead as an individual who needs guidance and empathy, I convert my past aveiros into zechusim. And when you finish your recovery, think of how well you will be able to help women who find themselves in similar situations! And by doing that, you will turn all your past aveiros into zechusim. Again please, please, please connect yourself to the active guardureyes forum so that you have the group support. It will help you so much. Also, make sure to read these two pages (which I sent you before) if you haven't already. /GUE/FAQ/FAQFW8.asp /GUE/FAQ/FAQforWomen.asp I hope one day you can look back on the day that you decided to contact me for the wrong reasons and say that it was the best worst thing you ever did. Have a great and clean week!
Ahron writes us about what she replied	Here are a couple things she said to me recently. "I must say that that your dvrei torah uplifted me, and now I truly want to get better to insure that all of your misdeeds are transformed into mitzvot. I emailed back the admin guy, and asked him if he can help me find a SLLA group on long island. I feel that you have helped me break free from certain compulsions already. I no longer feel compelled to email the sickos and get attention from them. in addition that guy giddy who I hooked up with wanted to meet again, but hasn’t been in touch, so I controlled myself and didn’t contact him. also the admin started his letter "dear bas yisroel" I almost cried." I don't think she's seen much real emotional support from the people around her in her life. She also has no self esteem whatsoever. These things were probably the catalysts of her addiction.
She writes to us	Dear sir webmaster, Ahron tells me that you are a tzaddik, and I believe him. I wanted to tell you that just by starting your email with dear bas yisroel you penetrated my heart. I am sure that you have had more stories than you care to remember, and hopefully one day mine will be credited to you and your site as well. I see that many recovery stories have to deal with porn and Mast-g and things of that nature, did you ever have a recovery story with s/o in the same situation as mine. I am so far steeped in tumah, I can hardly see my neshama, and even the guys I am with tell me I am out of control.
We reply to her	Dear Yiddishe Neshama, We have had many stories of people in your situation. I will share with you a few of them, and I can even get the people from these stories to be in touch with you and help you on your own journey. Dov's Story: http://www.guardyoureyes.org/GUE/WP271/?p=176 (Dov is one of the leaders of our forum today, offering amazing advice every day to everyone there) Elya's Story: /GUE/OurStories/RecStory10.asp (Elya is the moderator for the 12-Step weekly phone conference, and he has a hotline where you can call and talk to him) Mevakesh's Story: /GUE/OurStories/RecStory13.asp (Mevakesh is a powerhouse of Teshuva, and he has helped women like you in the past. Maybe I will put him in touch) Usually for an addiction as advanced as yours, the best chance for a full recovery is through an SLAA group in your area (as Dov and Elya (above) will undoubtedly tell you as well). We are here for you, and I am sure that you will make it. Hashem knew you would fall, he knew your issues, he knew your tests. But in the end, it will all be worth it, if you use this struggle in the way it was intended by Hashem, as a springboard for learning how to give your heart to Hashem, and to be an example of Teshuvah that can inspire many others as well! And in this way, you will be able to uplift your past sins to the side of holiness. Hashem is just waiting for you to find the love that you crave so much - in HIM. You will find it. With the help of our network, with me, Ahron, Elya, Dov, Mevakesh - we will all be here for you and help you find your TRUE self again. With true caring and understanding, GUE
Ahron sends me her story	Hey guard, Here is the story which the lady finally wrote up (I kept bugging her to write up her story). She sent it to Dr. Respler and to me. It is a VERY messed up and complicated situation, and I don't know exactly how to handle it. Hopefully you'll have some more insight than me. You can contact her after you read it (she knows I'm sending it to you) and let her know where she should go from here. "I am writing to you in hopes that you may consult with a rav who can give me daat torah on how to proceed. After reading this you will understand that while I have a posek, and a morah daasra, this is NOT something I can bring into the open. I am not asking for a therapy related answer, I have am seeing both a frum psychologist and psychiatrist. I think my life is over, and sometimes, I feel that if I were to die the people around me would be better off. I am 28 and am married for 8 years, with 3 very small children. I have always had a history of depression/dysthymia, but never had anything close to this. I grew up in a lonely broken divorced MO home, went to a coed yeshiva, was in NCSY, and was pretty frum for the most part. I spend a year in Israel learning, got my BA, got married to a boy I was in love with (I was shidduch dating, but met him through a friend), and got my MS in psych. Life was pretty good, though I was still struggling a bit with dysthymia. at 24 I had my first child, and 26 my second, and when I was pregnant with my third at 28 is when this all started. My husband and I consider ourselves yeshivish, we don't watch TV, sending our kids to non coed school, keep all laws of tzniut, don't go out with other couples for fun, as we deem it inappropriate. Though I am very comfortable around males, as I have grown up in a coed environment, since I have been married, I would never think to put the word friend and a guys name in the same sentence. I was friendly, but knew it was not correct to be mixing with the opposite sex. so, while I was pregnant with my 3rd a frum yeshivish type neighbor with a wife and small kids my kids age, took a liking to me, so he would find excuses to get the kids together, and call the house when he knew my husband was in shul. Then he started calling my cell phone, and I would tell my husband how weird it was that he was calling me. This man, lets call him Moshe, said he always wanted s/o he could talk to, and felt comfortable talking to me, so I kind of just let him talk, then my husband and I thought it was inappropriate so I kept telling him that I don't talk to other men and I think itsd assur. He kept calling and kept calling. I enjoyed talking to him, but felt too guilty, so I told him to stop, so thats when he said he will miss talking to me, and he admitted his feelings for me, and I have to say I had feelings for him. Sooo, he kept calling and calling, and opening up more and more, and telling me how his wife doesn't sleep with him enough, so I told him that I cant help him there. Then I started to really have feelings for him, and after a few months of us sharing how we feel about each other, and he admitting that he loved me, I got a call from him saying that while we could still speak, we can't talk about out feelings for each other b/c it'll lead bad places and well end up sleeping with e/o. I was aghast. I said I don't see how one would lead to the other, and begged him to keep the feelings channel open. so he agreed, on one condition. he said he would continue to talk about how much we love each other (btw this was going on for a while, and we didn't touch once), but he wants to but up a bet. he said if we continue, then I will eventually give in to sleeping with him. I told him that I accept the challenge, b/c I would never even let him touch me. so went by a few days, where he would come over ad try to hug and kiss me, and I would absolutely resist and pull away, then he calls me telling me that he cant continue this it is wrong and we have to stop talking about our feelings and he will stop trying to get him to sleep with me, and that I have to choose w/n him and my husband, i broke down. I realized how much I was in love with him, but couldn't leave my husband b/c I would feel too guilty and my husband is a tzaddik. He said that if I want to continue this we both have to get a divorce, so I said it wasn't an option. then my life came crashing down on me. Once he stopped telling me how much he loved me, and I realized I lost my chance to kiss him, I broke down, in addition I was working 2 part time jobs, and one of them was giving me a hard time about putting in more hours for next year. I lost my appetite, withdrew from everything, couldn't exercise (which I loved), and cried all day, it eventually became so bad that I would throw up stomach acid b/c I had no food in me. I couldn't get out of bed or take care of my kids. I went to a psychologist and was diagnosed with MDD. I became obsessed with this man, and not ever having the chance to touch him again. just to give you an idea of how physically sick this made me, I was admitted to the hospital for IV after a urinalysis showed I was spilling ketones. I am about 5"3, and I was 8 months pregnant weighing in at only 111 pounds. I could barely walk. NO ONE WAS CAPABLE OF COMFORTING ME BUT Moshe. Not my kids, not my husband, no one in my family. I came home from the hospital weak and depressed, and wasting away with no hope of getting better. i wanted to die. Then, Moshe walked into my house took a look at how sick I was and grabbed me, and kissed me. If I tell you, I've never felt such comfort in my life. it wasn't the excitement b/c I never looked for that in my life. ever since I was in jr high, I never wanted a boyfriend, I just wanted to stability of a husband. I always liked guys, and had guy friends, but NEVER gave into my yezter hara to even kiss a guy until my husband. I would never even go out with any boy that asked me in HS b/c I didn't think it would lead to marriage. After he kissed me, all was right with the world I gained all the weight I had lost, started eating, cooking and taking care of my kids, I even managed to go on anin terview and get a job. then, I came to him and told him that after months of thinking about it, I choose him ,and am ready to divorce my husband to be with him, and realize that I truly love and want to be with him in the right way and not touch out of marriage. he buried his head and said he can't live his kids and his wife, but we can still hug and kiss. I was upset but took what I could get. then a few weeks later he came over to me and told me that we can't do anything wrong anymore until/if we get married. no more touching. I broke down again, lost weight couldn't eat, cried all day, and was suicidal b/c my whole life I had a whole in my heart, that I felt even on my wedding day and night, and even though my husband loves me and I loved him and treated me so nicely and we never fought and tells me how much he loves me. Moshe was the only person in the WHOLE world that filled that hole. When I Was in his arms it was like sunshine, completeness. I finally knew what it felt like to feel complete. Yet it wasn't 100%, b/c I wasn't married to him. I even felt this overwhelming desire to give to him. I used to buy his favorite snacks and baked food for his parents tikkun kiddush and even gave him money. it hurt me when I told me that I couldn't give to him anymore as his wife would find out. so a few weeks later, I had the baby. I was grateful to Hashem for a healthy, precious baby, but by no means was I happy. I still couldn't eat, and would sit in my bed crying. A frum social worker saw me in the hospital and her and two psychiatrists involuntarily committed me to the psychiatric ward, but I refused to go and we left the hospital. months went by and I felt like a zombie with a newborn. I couldn't take care of things, and felt that I needed Moshe. I had the baby in the summer, and in the fall, Moshe suddenly kissed me, and AGAIN, I got better gained weight, looked good, was function. as long as we were able to touch I was ok. We made boundaries and agreed nothing more than hugging and kissing. One night I came over to drop something off, and his wife was out. *I apologize for being so graphic but its important for the psak halacha* He started to finger me so hard that I was cut and bleeding, so when he put me on the bed in a very dark room and quickly pulled of my skirt I didn't know what hit me, he went inside of me and I didn't realize until it was too late. I was devastated. I didn't want to be a sotah, and knew that I couldn't go back to my husband. But I was stuck, I couldn't tell my husband the truth and have 3 kids with him. That next week I tried to overdose, and Moshe told me that we cant touch anymore b/c itll lead to sex again. He pushed me away, and I feel apart. all of the sudden, I couldn't function again, I lost my job and didn't want to leave my house. I couldn't look at Moshe without falling apart, my stomach would churn, I've never felt love so deep (it wasn't a crush it lasted too long, and the desire too give even when it couldn't be reciprocated was too strong) Then s/t snapped, I could no longer live in the deep, emotional, suicidal pain (btw, I was on Rmeron and Paxil), so turned to some guy friends to talk to (which I hadn't done wince I was engaged). I started not caring about halacha as much (as opposed to b/f when I felt morbidly guilty about my indiscretions). Then, I did the unthinkable, I tried to replace Moshe with other guys just to ease the pain while time would try to heal my severely broken heart. I no longer had the slightest desire for my husband. IN fact we were separated for about 3 months due to niddah issues and I didn't care AT ALL. even now almost a year later, I don't feel comforted by his touch and in fact makes me nauseous at times. I started finding frum guys online to talk to and then I met up with some of them. I went through a few (no sex that was a firm NO with all of them on my part). It was like someone stole my brain and replaced it with an immoral, uncaring, non Jewish one. My soul became corrupted and I fell deeper into it. The psychiatrist reevaluated what was going on and diagnosed ADD and Bipolar and put me on Depakot. I was out of control, I would meet up with yeshivish guys 3 time s week for a quick fix anything to take away the pain. But I was super picky who I would fool around with. They had to remind me of this guy Moshe. Then and this is where my questions comes in, 2 guys who I said NO SEX to several times, took advantage. we were both naked and then pushed in. They didn't ask, no warning just went it, these guys were big players, very experienced, so again, I didn't know what hit me. I assumed no sex meant they would even try and they popped in. So the problem is, its not exactly rape b/c it wasn't forceful, it was just an unwelcome surprise. Once they were in I thought it was all over and so I just let them finish and said good bye. Needless to say I didn't let them do that again and swore them. I again wanted to kill myself b/c I m such a state of limbo, this disease is controlling me, I want to be free from pain and I don't want to trade my soul for that.. I want my husband to be happy b/c I love him as a person but I don't want to be married to him anymore, but cant divorce him its not an option, he will not hear of it, and would prob not give me a get, b/c he doesn't want to get remarried an only wants me. But halachically I want to be able to go back to my husband for my kids sake, and b/c I believe my husband is one of the 36 hidden tzaddikim, I dont want to deny more children to him. So what is my status. I wish a rav could fins some leniency (like pleading insanity). even the guys I am with tell me I'M crazy b/c over the span of 6 months, I have met with and fooled around with TWENTY GUYS. With each one I say this is the last, and each one I want them to be like Moshey so I can forget him. but there is NO replacement for him, and this not helping, BUT it is keeping me from being suicidal and un-functional and that is why I am continuing. I cannot even listn to reason. I KNOW logically I am wrong, and I don't even for a second deny the truth to every word of the Torah, but my thinking is so clouded my pain and emotion, that like a drug addict Ill take what I can get to prevent from feeling sad again I know aveira goreret aveira but this is ridiculous, I cant even look or talk to a guy now without thinking about hooking up with them. I am obsessed with guys. I used to be one that wanted stability and to always do the right thing, b/c I grew up in an immoral and unstable family life, but now I am a loose cannon, agreeing to meet at night and in cars with guys I d ont know, wanted to go clubbing and even entertaining the thought of sleeping over these guys houses. I am seeing 3 guys at a time, HEEELPP ME!! what is my status? signed A true bas Torah with a blackened heart
We reply to her about her story	Dear holy Bas Yisrael, Ahron forwarded me your heartbreaking story. Although it seems to me that this "Moshe" bears basically ALL the responsibility for destroying your life, I don't want to play the "blame game" here, since that won't get us anywhere. But I DO want to shift the blame *AWAY* from you, since blaming yourself is not only counter-productive; it is also NOT TRUE in my opinion. You are human and your reactions were all human and perfectly natural under the crazy circumstances that Hashem put you in. And the sexual addiction that you quickly fallen into while feeling suicidal, is perfectly understandable. And even the way that you have come to view all men (as potential sexual partners) is a typical symptom of this addiction. It may shock you to know that I do not believe you are even assur to your husband at all. I am pretty sure you are not, although I can check with a Rav for you. First of all, in all the cases of actual penetration that you described, it seems obvious that you did not instigate it. And even when you "allowed it" to continue once it was already too late, the Rambam calls this an Onus - EVEN in the case where you enjoyed it, since the nature of a human being cannot help but enjoy it (even if it was forced upon them). Not only that, but even in the case of willful sinning, there are poskim that hold that unless there are witnesses, the woman is not believed to assur herself to her husband through her own testimony - even if she openly admits it to him and to beis din, and she therefore remains permitted to him. But I don't think we even have to go that far to find you a heter. Especially since Moshe kept coming onto you and slowly turned you insane, in my opinion you are an oinus. I do not know if any other “normal” bas yisrael in your circumstances would have done better. It is not a lack of Emunah here, you obviously have solid emunah. So I want to clarify again these important points. 1) THIS WAS NOT YOUR FAULT. Don’t beat up on yourself and let yourself be depressed anymore about the past. The past is out of our hands anyway. Imagine you were born TODAY – with this heavy package on your back, and Hashem is waiting to see what you will do with it. Only the NOW is in our hands. 2) I am 90% sure that YOU ARE PERMITTED TO RETURN TO YOUR HUSBAND. But I can ask. And it sounds like you have an amazing husband, so start getting back in "love" with him. (It makes sense that you feel nauseous from him now, because in your mind you are thinking you are assur to him, and you also felt that you have no hope! - But now that you know that both of the above are not true, you will be able to start having loving feelings for him again). By the way, how much – if any of this – does your husband know about? 3) YOU ARE UNFORTUNATELY IN THE MIDSTS OF A SERIOUS SEXUAL ADDICTION, which is a disease of the mind. It is not your fault that you got this disease, but you are fully responsible to do the best you can to RECOVER from it. Hashem has seen your immense suffering, and I am sure that your intense emotional and psychological suffering was already atonement for whatever parts of this story might have been the result of bad choices that you made. Hashem sent you Ahron in a miraculous way, and Ahron sent you to us. We will do our best to lead you on the proper path. For starters, I would look into finding a sex-addiction therapist. They will be able to help you find what is the “hole” you always felt in your heart that you needed to fill. In my opinion it probably stems from your broken childhood. They will also guide you with wisdom and understanding in how to break free of the sexual addiction that you have fallen into as a result of all these events, and how to break free of your desperate dependency on "Moshe". Zeva Citronenbaum may be able to help you. You can find her info on this page – which is the story of another Bas Yisrael who fell into sexual addiction. I suggest you read my reply to her on that page as well. You may also need an SLAA group to fully break free. That is the most powerful method that exists for dealing with these type of addictions. Your story is very similar to many I have read in the SLAA literature. You are VERY normal. You have a very holy soul, I can see from all you wrote that you are a true Bas Yisrael and your emunah is still strong. You just need help. Put your struggle onto Hashem and he will do the rest. You are SO precious, and your story is SO painful. But when all is said and done, I hope you will look back and understand that Hashem put you into all this because he had a great plan for your holy soul, a great mission. It’s not for nothing you think your husband is one of the 36 hidden Tzadikim. If he is so great, he was also given a very holy soul as a wife. But for you to reach your soul’s potential, Hashem had to put you through this unbearable nightmare. The journey to recovery may take time, it may be hard, but you will come out of it shining like the sun for all eternity. With all my understand for a true suffering bas yisrael. GUE.
Ahron writes to us about our reply	Hey Guard, You've done it again. I was very candid with her about the fact that I couldn't answer some of her questions fully (the halachic issue, as well as the emotional issues) so I deferred her to you (and she also decided to email Dr. Respler on her own). The funny thing is that after I told her that I wasn't qualified to answer some of her issues, I went on to give some opinions, and they pretty much matched yours (about blame, how she feels towards her husband, and a lot of the other stuff too). I hope she will take your advice to heart, as you really wrote from your heart and I think that's the best way to reach someone. Let me know how she reacts to your letter. I will also have to tell her at some point that I would like to keep all chatting on a public forum (hopefully GUE) but I don't think she's ready for that yet. I want to be sure she is set on the right path before I back off, but in the end I'm human and I do not want to get emotionally attached to her in an inappropriate way, which is why I feel it will be necessary to back off eventually. Thanks for your time as usual, Ahron
She writes to us	YOU ARE A TZADDIK!!!! I can't even come close to your share in olam haba just for what you have done for me thus far. You pinpointed and told me exactly what is important for me to hear. Is it possible for you to perhaps verify that I can in fact go back to my husband, as I don't want to live a life of any more chataim? Also, I didnt want my husband to touch me for a while, even b/f this whole thing, Im not in love with him, sad but true. P.S. To answer your question, my husband only knows that I speak to guys, that's it. So I live a life of a lie, its so horrible.
This is the letter we sent to the website yeshiva.org.il	Hi, I am the webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org and we help people with sexual addictions to break free and do Teshuvah. One married woman sent us a terrible story. She was doing the worst things, but through our website and advice, she wants to truly do teshuvah and get recovery. However, she is afraid that she may be assur to her husband. So that is my question. Is a woman who wants to do teshuvah from these aveiros assur to her husband, if there was actual penetration? And if she is assur, what if the penetration was unwilling? She described to me her story, and in all the cases where there was penetration she had not wanted it and was actually shocked and hurt by it, although of course, she put herself in a situation where this was likely to happen – but the man had agreed not to and then did it anyway. Please advise, because the answer is very important for her to know to be able to undertake the steps to proper Teshuva (therapists and 12-Step groups, etc…). If the answer can be sent as soon as possible, it would be a big help. Tizke Lemitzvos!
We reply to her	Dear Yocheved, I have submitted your question to the website www.yeshiva.org.il and I await their reply. It may take a few days. Even if you are not in "love" with your husband in a lustful way, you obviously respect him a lot - as indicated in your story. It is important, that if you ARE permitted to him you allow him to touch you and be with you, because this is one of the things that will help you bond with him emotionally and rebuild your life, not to mention that this is the responsibility of every Jewish wife and a Mitzva as well. I forgot to emphasize one thing in my response to you yesterday. You mention that you are seeing a psychologist and a therapist, and they are putting you on one medication after another. I must stress very strongly, that if the therapist and psychologist are not TRAINED IN DEALING WITH ADDICTIONS, you are most likely wasting your time. You can spend 10 years going to them and thousands of dollars - all for nothing. In your case, you must see a therapist who is trained in addictions, preferably sexual addictions. Zeva Citronenbaum can help you. Please contact her at: acoachservice@yahoo.com Do you want me to ask her to get in touch with you? Be well!
She writes to us	Thank you very much for forwarding my question for me. I still cannot fathom your eternal reward for all of your efforts. Thank you for making me look at my therapist in a different light, as I remember her once saying "I have no patience for drug addicts" and I am in fact an addict, therefore she is probably having a hard time dealing with me (hence my lack of progress). Since I have been in touch with both you and Ahron, I have not gotten together with any guys, I still will most likely, but so far I am being good. I understand how important it is to be intimate with your spouse, so I do it, but I don't enjoy it AT ALL, and in a way look forward to being in niddah (crazy, right?). I don't let my husband in on this, as he doesn't deserve the heartache. I have contacted Dr. Yael Respler, what is your opinion of how helpful she can be to me? Yocheved
We reply to her	I don't know who Dr. Yael Respler is, but if she is not trained in addictions, you are likely wasting your time. Please get in touch with Zeva, and also please get in touch with an SLAA group in your area. You can do this! Take it one day at a time. Just for today, promise yourself you'll stay clean no matter what! We're here for you. We'll pull through this together.
Ahron updates us	Yocheved asked me to tell you that she contacted Zeva. She is doing well so far in staying away from guys, but she has so many (how sad, they are all "black hat") guys chasing after her that I fear she will capitulate within a short amount of time without more help (the forum/SLAA or both). Please give her some more chizuk. Thanks!
We write her some Chizuk	Dear Yocheved, Ahron told me you got in touch with Zeva. That's wonderful news and it shows that your Neshama is coming back to life and you are making the first important steps forward. Another important step, is to delete your sinful contacts in your phone and e-mail addresses. Maybe even change e-mail accounts (or addresses) and close the "sinful" accounts. We don't want to leave openings for the yetzer hara while we try to heal. We all know how hard it is to fight the desire once it is facing us head on and beckoning... So we need to make fences to keep it away from us, so we don't need to fight it "head on". Please also look into SLAA groups in your area, and stay in touch with me and Ahron. We are probably the first men in a while to contact you that really mean your own good, and not yourdestruction for self-serving purposes, like all the other men who contact you. Always remember this secret. The past is out of our hands. The future belongs to Hashem. Only the NOW belongs to us. Take it one day at a time. Making a "life-time" commitment to change is not healthy for you at this point. If you have to, you can even "reserve the right" in your mind to "act out" tomorrow. But when you wake up each morning, promise yourself that JUST FOR TODAY, you will stay clean NO MATTER WHAT. Keep in touch, GUE